Anthony Albanese accused of dodging questions in pre-election 7.30 interview

ABC host Sarah Ferguson pressed Mr Albanese on issues like government spending, the cost of living, housing and the current debate over Welcome to Country ceremonies.

We shall run through each subject in turn.

Electricity prices

Referring to Mr Albanese’s promise at the last election to lower electricity bills by $275, Ms Ferguson asked whether he could now commit to prices coming down by the end of 2025.

“What we’re doing is working through the mess we inherited, Sarah,” said Mr Albanese.

“That’s a question about the end of this year,” she stressed.

“No. There’s a context here, Sarah,” said the Prime Minister.

“And the context is that 24 out of 28 coal-fired power stations announced their closure under the former government. “They had 23 policies. They didn’t land a single one of them. What we have been addressing is how you increase stability, increase supply. We have approved enough renewable energy projects to power 10 million homes.”

“Do you wish you hadn’t said it? Do you wish you hadn’t made that prediction?” Ms Ferguson asked him, bringing him back to the pledge from 2022.

“Look, Sarah, you cannot look back. What you can do is look forward. And what you do in looking forward is make sure that you address (the question of) what is the cheapest form of energy going forward,” Mr Albanese said.

Ms Ferguson asked whether, if electricity prices are not lower by the time existing energy bill relief lapses, he would extend that relief.

“We have our policies out there,” Mr Albanese said.

“What’s the answer to the question, though?” Ms Ferguson pushed.

“Our policies are out there, Sarah, and you’re aware of what they are because you just put them to me,” said the Prime Minister.

After the beginnings of a monologue, Ms Ferguson jumped in again.

“I will stop you there because we will run out of time. It is a complex question. What the listeners heard is that you’re not quite answering that. But you’re entitled to do that.”

Welcome to Country

At another point, Mr Albanese accused Mr Dutton of “promoting division” and “engaging in culture wars”.

Ms Ferguson brought up a striking moment during the fourth and final debate of the election campaign on Sunday night, when Mr Albanese seemed visibly uncomfortable speaking about Welcome to Country ceremonies.

“Let me ask you a question related to the culture wars. On the Channel 7 debate last night, you seemed half-hearted in your response to the question about whether or not Welcome to Country ceremonies should continue,” Ms Ferguson noted.

“Are you getting feedback that suggests that among some voters – that Welcome to Countries are unpopular among some voters?”

Incidentally, that would align with the post-debate data from Seven, which showed voters largely approving of Mr Dutton’s stance on the issue.

“No, look. Peter Dutton wants to engage-” Mr Albanese began to say.

“It’s a question about your answer, if I may,” Ms Ferguson said.

“I’ll tell you what my response is to that. That I don’t want to engage in fighting culture wars. I want to engage in fighting for the Australian people,” said the Prime Minister.

“But your response last night. Sorry to interrupt you, but it was half-hearted in response to the question?” the host pressed.

“No, that’s what I’m engaged in. It is something that to me is a matter of just courtesy. It’s up to organisations whether they have it or not. I find it uplifting and a matter of good manners,” said Mr Albanese.

Cost of living

The conversation turned to the cost of living.

“With a week to go, the polls are clearly telling us one thing very loudly. But the pent-up anger of families whose household wealth has gone backwards tells us another thing. Many of those stressed families are in marginal electorates. If you do lose the election, will this be the reason?” Ms Ferguson asked.

“Cost of living pressures are real, Sarah. That’s why we’ve acted,” the PM argued.

“That’s why we’ve addressed income tax cuts for every taxpayer. Energy bill relief, cheaper childcare, free TAFE. All of these measures. The measures we have put in Medicare to make sure that 1.3 million people can go to an urgent care clinic and get the care that they needed with just their Medicare card. Cheaper medicines down to $25.

“All of these measures have been aimed at addressing cost of living pressure, which we know are real. We’ve been dealing with the biggest inflation spike since the 1980s, and the biggest energy crisis since the 1970s.”

“In spite of that, though, there’s been a historically large – I think it is 7.6 per cent fall in living standards since you came to office. Claims that voters are now seeing everywhere in ads. That’s a true figure, isn’t it, not an invention?” Ms Ferguson asked.

“What has happened globally-” Mr Albanese started.

“But in terms of what’s happened to Australian households?” she interjected.

Mr Albanese went on to speak further about global circumstances.

Housing

Ms Ferguson pressed the Prime Minister on his promise, worth $10bn, to build 100,000 new homes for first homebuyers.

“When will the homes be built?” she asked.

“Well, we want to get it going. We want to get the legislation-” he started to say.

“But what’s the number? How many homes will be built by the end of the decade?” Ms Ferguson said.

“We want to get the legislation passed,” Mr Albanese said.

“We have 28,000 of our Housing Australia Future Fund and Social Housing Accelerator homes that are under construction-”

“But these 100,000 homes, first homebuyer. I just want to press you on that,” she said.

“We want to get it going. We haven’t passed the legislation yet,” he said.

“But you must have a projection for the houses?” she said.

“We do. We haven’t passed the legislation,” he said.

“What’s the answer?” Ms Ferguson said.

“We haven’t passed the legislation. You’re getting ahead of myself,” said the PM.

“I heard the Housing Minister give figures on timing,” she noted.

“I’m not getting ahead of myself, Sarah. What we are doing is putting into place the most comprehensive housing policy that any government has put in place in Australia.”

Sorry, real flurry of back-and-forths there.

Off-budget spending

The government released its election costings today, claiming its promises have had only a modest effect on the budget bottom line.

But critics claim there is a trick, of sorts, at play. They suggest Labor is piling much of the money it has pledged into “off-budget spending”, which is the term for when the government classifies an expenditure as an investment.

Off-budget spending is not included in the surplus or deficit figure you’re always hearing about. It still adds to the national debt though.

“You released your costings today, after lots of criticism of your spendathon, showing that it only had a small impact on the budget,” Ms Ferguson noted.

“But at the same time, credit ratings agency Standard & Poors says that your government spending may be putting Australia’s AAA credit rating at risk, especially if your off-budget spending is hiding the true, as they say, ‘deterioration of the budget’.

“Just for the viewers, can you explain what off-budget measures are, and exactly how much money have you got in the measures?”

“Off-budget measures are funds such as the National Reconstruction Fund, which invests, but produces a return,” said Mr Albanese.

“It can only be off-budget if, essentially, it’s going to produce a profit for the government.”

“Well it includes the Whyalla steelworks and the NBN. These aren’t profit generating yet, are they?” Ms Ferguson pointed out.

Indeed, they are not. Both are loss-making enterprises.

“But they will be,” the Prime Minister claimed.

“But there has to be an assessment that you’ll get a return in order for it to be off-budget.”

“What about student debt? How does that get a return, when you’ve just taken such a large chunk of it?” Ms Ferguson pressed.

Rather than answering directly, Mr Albanese launched into a justification of the policy, which ignored the classification of student debt relief as off-budget spending.

“Well, that’s a benefit. That’s about intergenerational equity, Sarah. Young people feel like they’re not getting a fair crack. And fair enough,” he said.

“And as part of our cost of living measures, we wanted to make sure that we could deliver for them, and in particular, they’ll be the big beneficiaries. Three million Australians will get an average of $5500 cut off from debt.”

“But the question is: why is it sitting in an off-budget measure?” said Ms Ferguson.

“Well, what it is, is making a difference by making sure that we reduce that debt. We make no apologies for that, Sarah,” said the Prime Minister.

7.30’s interview with Mr Dutton will follow later in the week.